MSS/SNAP Sections, Wednesday, August 15, 2018
Washington 4, Washington Marriott Woodman Park
Meeting Notes:
- MSS Announcements (Ashley Todd-Diaz)
- Vice Chair: Brenna Edwards
- Steering Committee: Jennifer Motszko, Nathan Saunders, Florence Turcotte
- Results/progress on resume review pilot
- 17 people volunteer to help review resumes and cover letters
- 19 people who participated
- Feedback in month or so
- SNAP Announcements (Katie Rojas)
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Election results:
- Chair: Elena
- Vice Chair: Gayle Schechter
- Secretary: Brenna
- At Large: Kara Flynn, Molly Brown, Maggie Hoffman
- Gayle and Elena student fund proposal, membership for first generation students; still needs approval but keep eye out for updates
- Updates to standing rules approved; replacing references to newsletter to blog.
- Council Liaison announcements: Erin Lawrimore and Brenda ??
- Plug for Issues and Advocacy Section meeting; archival labor (community and union relationships)
- Informal social at Baskin Robbins after this meeting
- Adrien Hilton: DACS updates
- Last community comment, show support for new principles
- Has cards to hand out
- Making more accessible, transparent, extensible processing, and one other
- Build upon current statement of principles
- Anyone can make changes/updates to it; comment!
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Alison Clemens (incoming chair of MSS) leading panel (Hiring Practices in the Archival Profession).
Panelists:
- Dorothy Berry, Digital Collections Program Manager, Houghton Library, Harvard University (IU alum)
- Melissa Gonzales, Director of Records Management, Houston Community College (Simmons alum)
- Beth Myers, Director of Special Collections, Smith College (Loyola University alum)
- First question: “how diff for manuscript archivist to transition to university archivist? Difficult to changes tracks?”
- Apply skill to whatever doing; processing archivist to university archivist and labor archivists; some knowledge of labor unions. Go into positions not being subject experts but opp to learn; knowledge of one portion helps be in other positions. Marketing self in cover letter and resume. Museum -> records management; what experience is, how used it, and how can use at your institution - Melissa (soft skills too)
- Important to not get tied to idea of what job description/title means; self marketing, do what want to even if archivist not in title; pay what need to survive (thrive). Effect if you present self to hiring committee, think of self in full body manner - Dorothy
- Responsible for those on hiring committees to see skills more broadly and not just job title looking for; more difficult in smaller institutions; management take leap of space, technical to public is stepping back and thinking of person - Beth
- Second: “how work against culture where paraprofessional skills devalued. Lower paid, etc. What power have to work against this?”
- Middle-manager, classed out of position is to be open to supporting individual in career, growth to current position and future positions, what do they know that we’re not doing here - question to ask person in that position, if they’re willing; can move past this role; underclassed sometimes because pay or commitment to field and self and not longer fulfilling as once was - Dorothy
- Creating culture of not devaluing; technical skills in Archives and breaking down of what people do; stereotypes of what people in archives do. Push around issues of salary and total package, if they can’t do it, no one can; politely and persistently - Beth
- Connections with those outside your department, but in your institution and advocate for your work - Melissa
- Springboard approach - hiring term positions need specifics on start/finish and longer than one year; how springboard in future? Fail if not leaving better than arrived - Beth
- Think trend away from generalist positions and to term/project positions? Responsibilities
- Fight for generalists; technical and public services division is imaginary (heavily Venn diagram); technical/technology skills more divide; Important when describing to vendors/donors, etc - Beth
- 4 different 1-2 years project positions, not supporting those who need to move every 2 months; pushed into grant, funding on institutions level, not on department level; affecting continuing more 2 year contract positions being open; issue when people are looking for job as archivist - Dorothy
- Intern at as many different places and learn different types of skills; paranoid at finding job; 3rd job and intern film archives, odds of finding specific film archive - good luck; hope not trend of this; leaving every 2 years on resume (project or no), issue of upward mobility and pops to advance in position; term based more in academics than elsewhere - Melissa
- Could you give tips to older applicants (50+), but new to profession, how market skills? Preference to new graduates?
- Corporate banking background; even if come from non-library/archives background, soft skills have learned that can help you; don’t tap into other people’s background or interests; asks for management training, personnel and HR skills, manage budget, etc. Could tap into membership and those willing to teach. Think possible and to apply skills from those positions; older in entry level it’s more a learning curve for them because higher level in past jobs - Melissa
- Non soft skills like management, present strongly what can bring to table, large gap of social skills in many libraries, not all; can work across depts, skills not in academic backgrounds - Dorothy
- How approach asking boss for reference when might not be happy leaving/looking for job
- You don’t have to, even if only supervisor, find professor or higher up colleague - Dorothy
- Ditto; told manager when looking, counter offer may not hep mental state if really want to leave (unhappy, etc); transparent offer help to find replacement or help transition to new person; not surprise; doesn’t often put down manager as reference when looking - Melissa
- If not going to list, be prepared to answer the question “why”; reasonable response in case comes up - Beth
- Don’t be negative when it comes up - Melissa
- Online systems now have check box saying don’t contact; they don’t know environment, only know you - Dorothy
- How approach need for spousal hire? Non-salary negotiations people can try?
- Yes; 12 day long negotiation; great job where was, but even “dream job” meant move for family, hard to do (partners and pets both!); leverage was tipped in her direction, also knew what willing to walk away over, asked for everything and more; it’s hard and costly and has to mean something to me; being willing to put it out there, market is really competitive, lots of folks who apply; NEGOTIATE, people expect it, has to work for you; you’re interviewing them; lump in with list of what people need when negotiation, what culture is; retirement package etc. ASK, worse they say is no, then ask again, and maybe, and ask again (if they still say no, maybe not institution for you)- Beth
- No leverage as early career? Simple negotiation of salary don’t do, and a lot aren’t allowed to do (institution). 55? 53. 54? :) Nope, 53. People don’t like to ask about money and be too forward, etc. - Dorothy
- Tech package, think about small things too. What do you need to be successful? -Beth
- Say no to salary? Ask for more vacation/professional development/education. Write into contract. You can. Imposter syndrome - No. People at the top should have it, not you; confidence and believing in self; people can read that and see it and sense it. Owning it is half the battle - Melissa
- What is reasonable time frame for starting new position when leaving old? Reasonable negotiation start date.
- Keep in mind iterative documentation of work; depends on position. Hard to do when work with collections you value; don’t owe your job you’re time when you’re no longer working there. Poor planning on institutions part if they need you 3 months later and can’t leave quickly. Things will still happen - Dorothy
- Profession small, people know people; museums too. Try to give 2 weeks unless something crazy in the time. Sustainable transition to be professional and not burn bridges to future opportunities. - Melissa
- 2 weeks minimum; take for self between jobs? Academic - 3 months, hard in striking balance - Beth
- Grant position, hiring full time and giving month, and no more to current institution - Dorothy
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Open Q&A:
Negotiation when starting new job; didn’t know, how would you recommend fixing that?
- Take your job description and document everything doing in and outside of description; walk in like a boss and show what doing, have proof of why deserve raise; show up with receipts (stats, similar institutions) - Melissa
- Annual review talk and potentially know, they might say “don’t do Y and Z” but still might be expectations you do that - Dorothy
- Job expectations change too - Melissa
- In job market, how set self apart in resume or cover letter? Even when overqualified?
- Beth - 99 applicants for 1 position; lots of data people on committees trying to process, missed opps even working ethically with vol people can’t spend time searching for mapping for job; key points and terms, experience, match? Cover letters tend to be (tend to 50% tailored to job) others general. Know resume has been customized to job applying for catches eye. Initial skim and cut, not deep read; where is experience - need to see on resume; remember these things are group events (esp academia), don’t know money/politics behind scenes that has nothing to do with you; doing better, but still not there; working through systems
- Dorothy - keep in mind, when in middle of slog; never know who in those people have qualifications and connections; what dedicated to, etc. Focusing and crafting good cover letter is very important; don’t just copy resume, prose, show some individually
- Beth - how make my life easier and what are their goals; what fix/accomplish, show understand what walking into; initiative
- Melissa - do research on institutions, websites and initiatives, do the leg work and show you’re really interested in it. If magical unicorn, sometimes means person on inside they want to promote
- Gov’t postings with short time frame mean they probably have someone in mind; but don’t let discourage. Don’t be discouraged; those near library schools have students who worked there sometimes have edge (not meaning to)- Dorothy
- Negotiating ask how much want, ask how much offering. What you want may be less than what they offer; have amount in mind and negotiate from there. Q: when looking 15 years in, address fact been there for long time, how prepare to make shift?
- Add to point about salary: corporate, nope. Academics, ask in first interview about salary range; experience based is multiplayer, etc. - Beth
- Can ask before applying as well - Allison
- Can Linkedin stalk people in position before and send them a message and ask. Salary range listed, points based system; overshot what ask for by 12000, YES PLEASE; regional archivist groups - not post job postings without salary because not transparent - going to tell anyways, so put on there first - Melissa
- Proactively describe things you’re new to and what interested in when new to field, etc. Not reflected in resume, but in what you know. Put forward relevant things, marketing self. Even if first time there faced with responsibilities - Dorothy
- If part of something non-archival but have leadership,put in there! - Melissa
- Still in program, going to be applying, concerned by job qualifications and databases requirement, if don’t know will you be trained?
- Talk about what you do know, since a lot are similar feels and how they work. Hype up what you do know and research what they are using. Training - yeah, they will. Linked - apply for position and first interview, see how can apply to job, fit in socially and culture. Might have one person fit in really well and not all the skills,and reverse, but will go with first because can train them - Melissa
- If hold changing specifications against you, probably don’t want o work there - Dorothy
- Really focus on what systems they use and migrations, asking systems ecosystem at place is way to take question; be curious and show interest; leveraging what do know and show how can transfer. - Beth
- Interview process, chronic illness that could impact work?
- Sara (audience) - cancer surgery next day from interview, did not mention in interview because not relevant; when call with offer, mentioned medical procedure and said results could impact answer; she did not need to know, none of her business; not factor in reason hired me; not accept and then retract acceptance; hiring for skills and bringing that in is not something have right to know up front; wait til offer and then MAYBE bring up if really bring up
- Not reasonably accommodate, problem is on them. Can’t hold against you, but some still might if revealed early. - Dorothy
- Some surprising things revealed in interviews; there for the job, then negotiation in offer phase if think might affect in greater work - Beth
- Reasonable accommodation, something that is large part of life don’t want to share at work, then they don’t have rights to that knowledge - Dorothy
- Contract position that love, how turn into permanent or letting know leave; how navigate its future?
- Contract and not plans to extend, don’t hold out for that. Not real. Not telling you they are doing it, then end is in site; not there for you permanently. Could tell you not real - Dorothy
- Endnotes:
- Immediate thoughts about what talk, and post-it notes around room
- And Google Form! Goo.gl/zSzyLt
- Effective ways to make career transition in cultural heritage positions
- Ethics
- Temporary and permanent positions
Referenced Group Meeting:
